Just in case you just got to the planet, the United States experienced what we like to call slavery from the 1560s until the 1860s. Primary focus was on the enslaving of black people to engage in the hardships of agriculture without pay. Well we have since, cleared that nonsense up and even managed to treat all men equal (supposedly).
But now that America has seen the error of its ways, should reparations be paid to the ancestors of the slaves. Reparations are normally paid in monetary payments or compensation in land. After the civil war, 40,000 slaves were freed and allowed to settle on 400,000 acres of of land in GA and SC. Unfortunately, President Andrew Johnson reversed the order after the death of good ole Abe Lincoln.
Reparations paid by the U.S. isn’t a new concept. Japanese Americans were paid reparations after World War II. Native Americans were paid reparations, mostly in land and are allowed to do almost whatever they wish on their land (Ever wonder how that Casino got there).
So let your voice be heard. Do Black people need their money and land?
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My family lineage was still in Europe. Why should ANY of my tax money go to pay for what some other person’s ancestors did.
The Japanese were interned for 2 years and they were paid for their hardship. The Indians had their land taken and within a relatively short amount of time they were given a good portion of it back to do as they please.
Slavery (in some form or another) of black people lasted for about 350 years. The damage done by these years can likely never be fully measured, but despite the fact the reparation act for blacks was reversed.
Things that make you go hmmm….
My family lineage was thrown in a shack, whipped, raped, sold on a stage like wild stock, and humiliated at every turn.
Why should I pay taxes period?
To answer your original question…because its the right thing to do.
I’m sorry but the majority of those slaves were legitimate purchases. As much as I hate to say it, considering my ancestors’ relatives decided to sell them for a few pounds of sugar, boomsticks (guns) or what have you, thats legitimate trade. Its not like the US government actually bought EVERY slave that came to the US, just some of them.
All other cases of reparations being paid by the US government were due to legitimate actions by the US government, not its citizens.
Trying to trace who owes who what is going to be insane if we’re going to argue on the topic of fairness. Get it from your ancestors’ owners, not the government.
I can already picture it… hand out reparations money and the roads will be covered with Donks and Bubbles.
And when the fuck did we get smiley faces? Bitches love smileys faces and I love me some smiley faces too!
It does seem like the right thing to do but honestly, not only would only the low lifes show up with their hand out, how would you prove that all these dark skinned warriors are descendants of slaves? Partner with Ancestory.com?
If the government decided to pay such reparations, we could kiss the national budget goodbye and file for bankruptcy.
You don’t control what your taxes pay for now….
And a lot of us would just be paying ourselves anyway.
I agree.
Why not just give black people who perform the research to prove their ancestry one year of taxes back. That works for me.
Cuz you don’t deserve it. One of your relatives already got paid for the hard work your ancestors did over the centuries.
Just because the later incarnations of something your ancestors bought all of a sudden got brains and became human/sentient doesn’t mean you give that later incarnation money because of all of the hard work its ancestor’s did long ago that your ancestors already paid for.
Because when evolution kicks in for horses and they become able to communicate with humans, we’re ALL going to have hell to pay.
My ancestors on my father’s side of my family fought against their enslavement under the ancestors of my mother’s side of the family for ~1000 years.
I should pay reparations to myself and everyone else should give me monies.
You pay taxes because you have directly benefited from the proceeds there of.
You were personally never enslaved.
What were they paid?
African slaves were sold to white slave traders by African slave traders for sugar, guns, salt, and other miscellaneous items.
Sorry, they weren’t all kidnapped from their homeland as movies like to portray. Most were legitimate exchanges.
Would you trade your mom, dad, sister, or brother for a #3 at Burger King?
How long has it been since I have eaten?
Not a fresh one either. One that has been sitting under that light for a few hours.
Right now you have to type them in
. We are working on it, the option should be available to click shortly 
.
Is Lucretia Mott in your bloodline? She’s my favorite.
I wouldn’t but I’m not a savage either. African slave traders on the other hand …
Is that the Angry Whooper?
If so, you may have a deal.
I have always been against the suffrage of women…
(you are a mon-stah) Just for kicks, let’s say 2 weeks. Hunger has converted to famine.
Mon-stah #2
Is there ketchup, mustard, mayonnaise or any combination of the three on the burger?
Lettuce, Tomato, Ketchup, Mayo, Pickle, Onion, and A1 steak sauce. And the liquid cheese (Cheddar).
Fuck that weird nasty shit, I’ll starve.
Good. Your family will be proud.
Nah, not a mon-stah at all. Just not taking an unfounded false dichotomy seriously.
Now that we are on that subject. Would you sleep with your own grandmother to keep your family from being sold into slavery?
No, I would not. Seeing as it is 2010, I could not imagine something so aberrant. Are you implying that had the Africans slept with their family members, American Slavery would not have taken place?
So, your lack of willingness to sleep with ones own grandmother to save the rest of your family is directly due to the date on the calender?
I was not referring to Africans since they have not been, as far a percentages of population over the millennium, the most enslaved people in human history. But now that the subject has been broached, how many do you think would have made that choice?
First part of my response was no – I would not.
AS far as others, I do not know what choices they would choose. What about you?
Is no one gonna laugh at this? Great line!
Yeah it’s too late for reparations, plus BigAl already cut me a check
Once again, the voice of reason on this site…
What do you think the New Deal was about? The welfare, the Social Security, the Medicare, the disability–ALL those programs were started as a way of “repaying” for sins existing people DID NOT suffer, and existing people DID NOT commission for others.
ALL SLAVES ARE DEAD–GET OVER IT! If slaves weren’t brought over here back then, we wouldn’t have black people here today.
Would black people “go back to Africa” if we asked them? No, because going back to Africa would be like going to a foreign country to them–they’re AMERICANS, not Africans.
As Americans, they need to get past slavery, get off their butts, and make a decent life for themselves–otherwise, they’re still in slavery by abdicating themselves to the whims of government checks (which the government can take away art any time).
This is the Land of the Free–start acting like it!
Nice try but the “New Deal” had nothing to do with black people or any other maltreated ethnic groups. It was “the man’s” attempt to fix what he had broken – The Country. The New Deal made no strides at black rights, ending segregation, or wronging any rights.
Black people would be here just like the Indians, Germans, Austrians, British, Irish, Chinese, Japanese, Italians, Samoans, Cubans, Hispanics, and North Africans. Black people were merely forced to come here.
Would you go back to your ancestors place of origin if we asked you to? I doubt it. So the reason you wouldn’t go is the reason most black people would not go. Scarce as they are, I do know a few people of African descent that want to go back to Africa.
Now, I do agree that people need to get off their butts and start wanting to do for themselves, instead of waiting to see what the government is going to give them next.
Coming from a black, but non African descent, I feel my opinion is worth something. With that being said, I think the government should pay up.
I just read a good article about this on another site. They aren’t as funny as us but they make a few good points:
http://open.salon.com/blog/travis_darby/2009/05/27/do_african-americans_deserve_reparations_for_slavery
Even “if” there was a “moral” obligation by the U.S. federal gov’t, reparations will never go through because of these roadblocks. —- 1. Financial. 2. Legal. 3. Political. For #1, the cost. — There is NO $$$ for reparations. And this is why the Senate issued the apology just recently. It is the “cheap” way to get african Americans “out of the way”.
Furthermore, reparations is a VERY broad term. What does reparations mean? Checks? And if so, for how much $$$? And/or for what duration? Or, does reparations mean tax exempt status? And is so, for how long / what duration? Or, does reparations mean totally free housing? Or totally free health care? Or totally free education?
Reparations is a very broad term which can / could mean anything.
And who would pay reparations?
And who would / should get reparations? And should blacks who live in America whose ancestors came to America after 1865 from South America, the Caribbean, Central America, Africa &/or Europe also get reparations?
And the reason why I bring this stuff up is to show that the logistics of reparations make it IMPOSSIBLE to enact.
And here are the legal as well as the political roadblocks. —- The legal roadblocks. —- The time frame. Slavery ended back in 1865. Subsequently, everyone who was involved in slavery is ALL LONG gone dead. And even ex. president, democrat Bill Clinton even said that WAY TOO much time has passed.
Political roadblocks. —- The democratic party & the Republican Party are both against reparations.
Derrick —- With all due respect, the White-American “masses” as well as the U.S. federal, state & local gov’ts have MORE than done their fair share to help & empower african Americans.
For instance —- It has primarily been the tax money from primarily White-Americans which has gone towards african Americans welfare & other entitlements.
And among the White “groups”, Jewish-Americans have ESPECIALLY done a lot to help & empower african Americans. Jewish-Americans played a VERY critical / pivotal part in the formation of the NAACP organization way back. And Jewish-Americans played a very critical / pivotal part in the “sustaining” of the NAACP as well as many other african American “civil / legal rights” organizations. Furthermore, Jewish-Americans gave a lot of aid/assistance to the african American “civil rights movement” back in the 1960s. And this aid primarily consisted of monetary donations & legal aid/advice.
And from the 1960s till now, african Americans have been given preferential treatment in the areas of aid/assistance, college — university admissions, job hiring & set asides.
In addition, from the 1960s till now, african Americans have been given trillions & trillions of dollars in aid in the form of welfare, housing aid, rent assistance, heat assistance, health care aid, educational aid, free school lunches, food stamps, TANF, Section 8, AFDC, WIC, legal aid, transportation aid, phone bill aid, child care/day care, foster care, affirmative action/quotas, set asides & federal jobs.
So, White-Americans have MORE than done their fair share to help & empower african Americans.
Subsequently, the “ball is in african Americans court”.
Derrick —- Your point here. —- You said “Black people were merely forced to come here”. —- With all due respect, let’s please put things in the proper perspective. And this is what I’m referring to. —- WAY before any Whites EVER went to ANY black African nation/nations, african Americans ancestors were ALREADY enslaved. And african Americans ancestors were already enslaved to rival, black African tribes. And african Americans ancestors were already enslaved by these rival, black African tribes was because they were the losers in battle to these rival, black African tribes.
And had the Whites not purchased african Americans ancestors, they would have been “neutralized” at the hands of these rival, black African tribes.
Some leftwing, afrocentric myths. —- The movie “Roots” showed Whites going into the interior of black African nations & capturing african Americans ancestors with nets. Well, the REALITY of black African slavery was TOTALLY different. The Whites didn’t do this stuff because the black African tribal chiefs VERY openly & VERY willingly sold african Americans ancestors to the Whites.
Another leftwing, afrocentric myth. —
Many leftwing, afrocentrists have said that what gave the Whites the advantage when they traveled to black Africa was firearms. Well, firearms WEREN’T even needed. And this is why —- Whites also had the advantage with these weapons of war —- Crossbow, Longbow & the Rapid fire bow. Furthermore, the Whites also had cavalry, armor plating & swords.
But MOST of all, the Whites didn’t even need this stuff when they traveled to black Africa because the black African tribal chiefs VERY openly & VERY willingly sold african Americans ancestors to the Whites.
money , money lol…….you think money can sweep that shit under the rug hahahahahah
Reparations is completely necessary and all Americans-individuals and centuries old corporations alike-need to have a deeper more analytical understanding of the consequences of slavery to understand that. If I could I would give some lectures on African American history and how integral it is to truly understanding the history of the United States because more often than not it takes a mentor of some kind to guide someone who is not truly familiar with it. We live in a society where racism has abounded for centuries, you would be totally ignorant to deny that. So if you accept that, then you must logically follow it up with the fact that it still significantly affects society here in the United States. I do not believe reparations in the form of handouts-a check for however much-would make a significant impact on the economic, political and social equality of African Americans. That is not to say money has no role in the solution because it overwhelmingly does. We need to look at programs and organizations of the past, both governmental and non-governmental, and examine the positive and negative characteristics they had on the betterment of African American livelihood. We need to find out why they failed and how to prevent their failure and by doing so, make programs more effective for today that would improve the education, socio-economic and political status of African Americans as a whole. As I said these do cost money and it will take much to make them viable. But in the end it is EVERYONE’S duty to make it so. African Americans to this day still live under conditions of inequality and oppression that varies in intensity from case to case. Systemic/institutional racism is very real and through education and some basic lessons in REAL/TRUTHFUL American history that public education largely does not cover, we can begin to fix the problems of today that have continued to exist because of our ancestors.
mikkiel k —- Well, reparations in the “form” in checks / $$$ will NEVER go through. And in my previous posts on this thread, I pointed out all of the financial, legal as well as political obstacles & roadblocks which make this the case.
And actually, the United States gov’t recently “showed its hand” twice in regards to African Americans not receiving reparations. And these were the 2 cases / instances. —- 1. The U.S. Senate’s apology for slavery. 2. Our president, democrat Obama not sending a U.S. governmental delegation to the “World Conference Against Racism” which was held in South Africa back in April, 2009.
For #1. —- When the U.S. Senate issued the apology for slavery, the Senate did this when America was experiencing & undergoing VERY bad economic times. The Senate’s apology was the cheap way of “getting rid” of African Americans. The Senate apology was the cheap way to “get African Americans out of the way”.
For #2. —- Back in April, 2009, many leftwing African American grassroots organizations traveled to South Africa for the “World Conference Against Racism”. And these leftwing African American organizations were demanding that America pay reparations to African Americans. And our president, democrat Obama didn’t send a U.S. governmental delegation to this conference. Subsequently, Obama was quietly letting African Americans know that they won’t be getting any reparations.
At best, African Americans may get an apology for slavery. Which clearly, they recently got. And African Americans may get a slavery museum built.
But, this is pretty much all that they will get. And this is pretty much all that they will get because of all of the financial, legal as well as political obstacles & roadblocks to reparations.
John —- Your points here. —– You said “So if you accept that, then you must logically follow it up with the fact that it still significally affects society here in the United States. African Americans to this day still live under conditions of inequality and oppression that varies in intensity from case to case. Systemic / institutional racism is very real and we can begin to fix the problems of today that have continued to exist because of our ancestors”. —- I must respectfully disagree with you about this. And this is why. —–
From the 1960s till now, “self destructive behaviors from within” have been African Americans BIGGEST obstacles to growth & empowerment. And from the 1960s till now, these have been the self destructive behaviors from within. —–
1. From the 1960s till now, the over 70% to over 80% illegitimate birth rates. And the 70% to 80% rates depend upon the area/areas throughout the continental United States.
2. From the 1960s till now, the VERY high rates of African American kids dropping out of high school.
3. From the 1960s till now, the VERY high rates of deadbeat fathers in the African American “community” who haven’t paid any & who currently aren’t paying any child support.
4. From the 1960s till now, the VERY high rates of single, unwed African American mothers who haven’t received any & who currently aren’t receiving any child support.
5. From the 1960s till now, the VERY high rates of African Americans who are unemployed & who are not employable due to being a high school dropout &/or because of having a criminal record. And usually a VERY extensive criminal record at this.
Now, the African American “community” has several hundred billion $$$ in spending / earning “power”. Yet, OVER 95% of this $$$ goes “outside” of the African American “community”. African Americans currently don’t support each / one another. And actually, African Americans haven’t supported African American owned / run businesses since the 1960s.
From the 1960s till now, this is ALL it has been in the African American “community”. —- Crime against each other, rivalry, jealousy, envy, egos, playa hating & not taking care of, not supporting & not backing each / one another up.
If your neighbors fight in their home, that does not give you the right go in and remove one, take one, punish one, or harm anyone. Once you step in, it becomes your problem. (AKA when the cops show – YOU are going to jail).
I am fully aware of the slavery of brethren but it was the WHITE man who came in, offered luxuries to a 3rd world country (that is more like 3rd world divided by 100) and took these slaves to another land and mistreated them. Plenty of wars have been fought and blood shed over the slavery in Africa. So just as those people had to right their wrongs, many believe the U.S. should right the wrongs of the enslaved descendants.
John —– Here are some other obstacles & roadblocks to reparations. —- 1. The United States government, American businesses & the American business lobbies relations & connections to Americas Hispanic community. And VERY vastly growing Hispanic population at this. 2. Globalization. And globalization as it pertains to this hemisphere. The North American Union.
For instance. —- Americas Hispanic population (The legal Hispanics as well as the illegal Hispanics) is increasing by DELIBERATE design. NOT by “accident”. And Americas Hispanic population has been increasing by deliberate design since at least the late 1970s is because this is what the American politicians as well as what American businesses (American big businesses & small businesses) & the American business lobby wanted & currently want.
And actually, Hispanic immigration to America has REALLY picked up tempo within the last 20 years because of this phenomenon. —- “Globalization”. And globalization as it pertains to this hemisphere. —- “The North American Union”. And globalization affects ALL of these areas. —- The nations of the worlds economies, industries (Heavy as well as light industries), finance / banking, job markets, standard(s) of living, gas prices, etc.. And within the last 20 years, the WHOLE world & ESPECIALLY this hemispheres markets have undergone changes in these areas. —- The electronics revolution & the shift from manufacturing & industrial capital to finance capital as the central feature of economic activity.
And here are just some of the reasons why Hispanic immigration (The legal Hispanics as well as the illegal Hispanics) & some English & French / Creole speaking Caribbean black immigration is “allowed” to come into America. —–
1. Hispanic immigration (The legal Hispanics as well as illegal Hispanics) & some English & French / Creole speaking Caribbean black immigration helps erase the borders between Mexico, Central America, South America & the Caribbean basin. And this helps to push towards the “North American Union”. And the North American Union is this hemispheres equivalent of the “European Union” (E.U.). However though, the North American Union is WAY more intricate than the European Union.
2. Hispanic immigration (The legal Hispanics as well as the illegal Hispanics) & some English & French / Creole speaking Caribbean black immigration forms a cheap labor source for American businesses. Subsequently, American businesses can hire them to do jobs which Americans won’t do. And even MORE so, this drives down wages. And this helps to destroy most American labor unions “from within”.
Derrick. —- I see all of your points which you made. And your point here. —- You said “So just as those people had to right their wrongs, many believe the U.S. should right the wrongs of the enslaved descendants”. —- Well, even “if” there was “moral” obligation for the U.S. gov’t to do this, there are way too many financial, legal as well as political obstacles & roadblocks. And I listed these in my previous posts on this thread.
In addition, our government recently “showed its hand” twice in regards to reparations. And I pointed this out in my previous post.
This isn’t going to sound that “politically correct”, but the U.S. gov’t, American businesses & the American business lobby is phasing out African Americans for Hispanic labor.
African Americans have been “sold out”. And African Americans have been “sold down the river” for Hispanic labor. Primarily Mexican labor. And African Americans have primarily been sold down the river by the political party which “claims” to “represent” them. —– The democratic party.
John & Derrick. —- There is also a “racial component” in regards to immigration to America.
For example. —- If Mexico was a black nation, would the politicians in Washington D.C., American businesses (American big businesses & small businesses), the American business lobby & most of White America tolerate “illegal” let alone EVEN legal immigration to America? —- Answer. — ABSOLUTELY NOT!
And if one isn’t sure, just look at what happens to black Haitian refugees.
If Mexico was a black nation, MULTIPLE walls would have been built at the U.S.s southern border & the U.S. military, National Guard, security forces & border guards ALL would have been stationed at the U.S.s southern border back as early as the 1960s.
John & Derrick. —- This correlates in. —-For instance. —- Refugees / immigrants who come to America do NOT receive equal treatment. It has worked this way, it currently works this way & it will ALWAYS work this way. Here are some examples. —-
Refugees / immigrants from Mexico, from Central America (From El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras &/or Guatemala) & from South America (From Colombia, Ecuador &/or Peru) are WELCOMED into America.
However though, black Haitians from Haiti are NOT welcomed. Unless, if the Haitian would be a very high ranking member of Haitis military, security forces, police &/or a member / associate of the FRAPH &/or FADH organizations.
Here’s another example. —- Refugees / immigrants from Cuba have been welcomed & are currently welcomed into America.
However though, black Haitians from Haiti are NOT welcomed. Unless, if the Haitian would be a very high ranking member of Haitis military, security forces, police &/or a member / associate of the FRAPH &/or FADH organizations.
And I point this out to show that this stuff (The U.S.s immigration policy) is happening NOT by “accident”. It is DELIBERATE. It has been & is currently the deliberate policy of the U.S. gov’t.
Americas Hispanic population is increasing by DELIBERATE design. Not by “accident”. And Americas Hispanic population has been increasing (Since at least the late 1970s) & is currently increasing by deliberate design because this is what the politicians & businesses (Big businesses & small businesses both) & the business lobby wanted & currently want.
Hispanics (Afro-Latinos included) are regarded by the U.S. gov’t, American businesses & the American business lobby as being Americas future. African Americans are regarded as being Americas past.
Johnny, this blog is about whether or not African Americans should receive reparations, not U.S. immigration. And while there is some truth to the “self-destructive behaviors from within,” you seem to have failed to ask yourself why those conditions exist in many, but not exclusively, African American communities.
Do you believe we should do nothing for African Americans, because you say we can not? You keep listing obstacles, we know there are obstacles, but that doesn’t mean we dismiss the idea of reparations.
Those five conditions you listed, like illegitimate children and highschool dropout rates, exist because “this is ALL it has been in the African American “community”. —- Crime against each other, rivalry, jealousy, envy, egos, playa hating & not taking care of, not supporting & not backing each / one another up.”
Really? So from the 1960’s until now the only reasons for inequality in the lives of many African Americans is because of these reasons?
Check your sources, and find some new, more credible and truthful ones Johnny.
John —- You said “Johnny, this blog is about whether or not African Americans should receive reparations, not U.S. immigration”. — Yep, you are absolutely correct about this. And the reason why I mentioned the U.S.s immigration policy was to point out just one of the reasons why African Americans won’t be getting reparations. Because Hispanics (Afro-Latinos included) are regarded by the U.S. gov’t, by American businesses & the American business lobby as being Americas future. Not African Americans.
You ask “Do you believe we should do nothing for African Americans, because you say we can not?”. — Yes. Because Hispanics (Afro-Latinos included) are Americas future.
Wow.
John — Your point here. —- You said “Really? So from the 1960s till now the only reasons for inequality in the lives of many African Americans is because of these reasons?”. —- It isn’t “inequality”. It is self destructive behaviors from within.
And if White “racism” is such a dominant &/or debilitating force in America, why then do just recently arrived immigrants of color
((Mexicans, Central Americans (Salvadorans, Nicaraguans, Hondurans, Guatemalans, Panamanians, (Afro-Panamanians included), South Americans (Colombians (Afro-Colombians included), Ecuadorians (Afro-Ecuadorians included), Peruvians (Afro-Peruvians included), West Indians (Jamaicans, Trinidadians (Afro-Trinidadians included), Grenadians, Haitians, Dominicans (Afro-Dominicanos included), Boricuas (Afro-Boricuas included), Cubans (Afro-Cubanos included), Virgin Islanders, Bajans) & EVEN African born blacks (Nigerian-Americans, Senegalese-Americans, Ghanaian-Americans, Ethiopian-Americans, Eritrean-Americans & Somalian-Americans)) pass up most African Americans within just a few / several years after arriving in America? —- Answer. — Because these foreign born immigrants of color are A LOT different than African Americans. Especially in regards to culture.
Most foreign born immigrants of color value & cherish work ethic, family values, morals, decency, education & law & order.
So the only reason for the self destructive behavior is self destructive behavior? So by your logic the only cause for wind blowing is, that the wind blows…very elementary thinking, and somewhat racist? Something is missing in your method of critical analysis Johnny. Here’s a truth you should face Johnny…the internalization of inferiority that for over 400 years many whites inculcated into African Americans. Examine American slavery as a process since its clear you have not, among many other things.
Surely not all African Americans can be excused because some do have all the support they need in life, but many do not Johnny.
You said “Refugees / immigrants from Mexico, from Central America (From El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras &/or Guatemala) & from South America (From Colombia, Ecuador &/or Peru) are WELCOMED into America,” Really? All of them are? What about the case in Arizona right now? And then later “However though, black Haitians from Haiti are NOT welcomed.” Why? Because they’re black.
And not all the races you list “value & cherish work ethic, family values, morals, decency, education & law & order.” Also, not all African Americans do not, as you seem to suggest, value these very same things. Maybe these races you list are so successful is because of what you say is the “deliberate policy of the U.S. gov’t.” (4:22 reply)
Finally, another one of the reasons why African Americans will not get reparations that you can add to your list is because people like you believe “Hispanics (Afro-Latinos included) are Americas future.”( May 10th reply at 5:08) You are severely misinformed.
Correction: “also, not all African Americans do not, as you seem to suggest, not value these very same things.”
John —- I’m going to have to step out now. And I’m going to be pretty busy in the upcoming days. I should have some time before Friday to respond back to your previous posts to me.
Either way, I’ll definitely get back to you.
In the meantime, later.
Oh, & John, I apologize about some of my “tone” in my previous posts on this thread. Sorry if I sounded kind of “harsh” & not “politically correct”, etc.. Sorry about that.
Derrick —- Your point here. —– You said “So just as those people had to right their wrongs”. —- With all due respect, NO black African nation/nations has EVER “righted” any “wrong” about slavery.
And here’s an observation. —- Have you noticed that leftwing African American “leaders” (Rev. Jesse Jackson Sr., Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton, Randall Robinson, Charles Barron, Quannel X & Malik Shabazz) always & only just focus on the U.S. federal, state & local gov’ts as well as on American corporation.
And this is why. —- These leftwing African Americans “leaders” KNOW that they couldn’t / wouldn’t EVEN get one nickle in reparations from ANY black African nation. And this is why they always & only just focus on the U.S. federal, state & local gov’ts as well as on American corporations.
It is ALL about “the green” (About “getting paid”) with these leftwing African American “leaders”.
These leftwing African American “leaders” use / exploit the African American “masses” for their own personal profit / gain. And if these leftwing African American “leaders” couldn’t / wouldn’t be able to derive profits off of using / exploiting the African American masses, they wouldn’t give the African American masses the time of day.
John —- You said “Here’s a truth you should face Johnny….the internalization of inferiority”. —- Well, let me please just say this. —–
EVERY race & EVERY ethnic group which has come to America has experienced hardships. Here are some examples. —–
1. Chinese experienced hardships.
2. Italians & Sicilians experienced hardships. Italians & Sicilians were discriminated against in the areas of housing as well as jobs. Furthermore, many Italians & Sicilians were lynched in Louisiana & in Colorado. And many Italians & Sicilians were lynched in Louisiana on JUST the “suspicion” that they were with the “Black Hand” (Various sets of the Sicilian Mafia).
3. Jews & Irish experienced hardships. Jews & Irish were discriminated against in the areas of housing as well as jobs. In addition, way back, there use to be signs in restaurants in Manhattan & in Boston which said —- “No dogs, no cats, no Jews, no Irish & no rats allowed”.
4. Dominicans experienced hardships. Especially the “7th Wave” of Dominican immigration to America back in the late 1980s / early 1990s. And the 7th wave of Dominican immigrants was more of the Black & Mulatto Dominicans. And they were more poor, etc.. And when a lot of th 7th wave of Dominican immigrants came to America (Especially to New York City), they experienced a lot of prejudice from African Americans & from Boricuas (Puerto Ricans). And actually, Puerto Ricans even called these Dominicans —- “Dirty black people”. In addition, Puerto Ricans didn’t “have their backs”. And subsequently, these Dominicans formed organizations for “protection”, etc..
This is my point. —– EVERY racial & EVERY ethnic group in America has experienced hardships, etc.. Yet, African Americans are the one & only group in America which uses the past as a crutch & as an excuse & to play the martyr — victim. In addition, African Americans are the one & only group in America which uses the past to make demands for more free handouts/entitlements/reparations.
John —- You said “Those five conditions you listed, like illegitimate children and high school dropout rates, exist because “this is ALL is has been in the African American “community”. — Crime against each other, rivalry, jealousy, envy, egos, playa hating & not taking care of, not supporting & not backing each / one another up”. —-
Well, there is more to this. Now, what is the CRITICAL factor which has led to this stuff? —- Answer. —– The family breakdown in the African American “community”.
And what entity has caused this? —- Answer. —- The democratic party.
This is the deal. —- Prior to the 1960s, the African American “family” was relatively intact. And prior to the 1960s, the rates of crime in the African American “community” was NOTHING compared to the rates of crime in the African American “community” from the 1960s till now.
This is what happened. —– It was RIGHT after ex. president, leftwing democrat Lyndon Baines Johnson (LBJ) & other leftwing democrats (Democrats in the House & Senate) implemented the “welfare & entitlement society” (”Great Society”) that ALL of this stuff “ignited” & SKYROCKETED throughout the African American “community”. —- Crime, illegitimate birth rates, girls from ages 12-17 having kids, kids dropping out of high school, welfare & entitlement dependency, laziness, insubordination, deadbeat fathers, households headed by single, unwed mothers & mothers who neglect their kids.
In addition, the policies of the democratic party also “ignited” this stuff. — High taxes, urban rot & decay, decline of public education (Especially in urban / “ghetto” communities”) & American jobs going overseas.
And from the 1960s till 1995, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING was done to reform welfare & other entitlement dependency &/or abuse was because the democrats had majorities in the House & Senate. It was ONLY when the Republicans “won back” the House & Senate in the November, 1994 election, that FINALLY some traction was made in 1995-1996 to finally reform welfare & other entitlement dependency &/or abuse.
And actually, our president back then, democrat Bill Clinton EVEN vetoed down welfare reform twice. But then, Clinton saw polls which showed that most Americans were in favor of welfare reform. And then, Clinton finally signed (Albeit very reluctantly) welfare reform into law back in 1996.
Furthermore, democrat Bill Clinton “took on” several Republican positions to save/salvage his 1st term in office. And here are some examples. —- 1. Clinton signing NAFTA into law. 2. Clinton signing the Crime Bill into law. 3. Clinton signing Welfare Reform into law.
John —- You said “Really? All of them are? What about the case in Arizona now?”. —- You are absolutely correct about the case in Arizona.
In regards to the recent law in Arizona. — Conservative politicians were primarily behind the recent law in Arizona.
But, there are also “other” politicians who are against this law.
In addition, there are also many people in businesses & in the business lobby who are also against this law.
There are legitimate points which are made about the “racial profiling” aspect of this law. But, the problem(s) of the illegals in Arizona is so VERY bad, that this is why the politicians in Arizona enacted this law just recently as well as why most native Arizonans support this law.
But let me please just say this. —- If our government WANTED to stop / end illegal immigration, our gov’t could / would.
Bottom line, our federal gov’t & many state as well as even many local gov’t DON’T want illegal immigration to America stopped. And this is why. —-
There are forces on the leftwing as well as on the Rightwing who have been & who currently are pro-illegals. On the leftwing, democrats (Especially democratic party candidates) have been & are currently pro-illegals. And this is why. —- When illegals become legal, this usually translates into votes for democratic party candidates.
And on the Rightwing, businesses & the business lobby are pro-illegals because they have derived & they currently derive profits off of the labor of the illegals.
And this is why I point this stuff out. —- Since the main power brokers in America are pro-illegals, illegals will still be coming into America.
So, regardless of Arizonas recent law, our federal gov’t STILL won’t be doing anything about illegal immigration.
John —- You said “And not all the races you list “value & cherish work ethic, family values, morals, decency, education & law & order”. —- Which ones? And could you please expound upon this.
You say “Maybe these races you list are so successful is because of what you say is the “deliberate policy of the U.S. gov’t”. — Nope. And this is why. —- When I mentioned the deliberate policy of the U.S. gov’t, it was in reference to Americas immigration policy. It didn’t entail Americas internal / domestic affairs &/or policy/policies.
John —- You said “Finally, another one of the reasons why African Americans will not get reparations that you can add to your list is because people like you believe “Hispanics (Afro-Latinos included) are Americas future. You are severely misinformed”. —- With all due respect, nope, not at all. And this is why. —-
Hispanics ALREADY have VAST numbers in America. For instance. —- Back in July, 2001, Hispanics overtook African Americans as being Americas numerically dominant “minority”. And this JUST takes into account JUST the legal Hispanics. This doesn’t even take into account the illegal Hispanics.
And from July, 2001 till now, Americas Hispanic population (The legal Hispanics as well as illegal Hispanics) has increased by A LOT more. And actually, as of last week, some sources have put the number of illegal Hispanics in America at 20-25 million.
And a decade from now & beyond (Especially 15-20 years from now), Americas Hispanic population will be increasing by WAY, WAY, WAY more due to Hispanic immigration & Hispanic birthrates. Especially because of Hispanic immigration.
And this is why I point this out. —- In years to come, since Hispanics will have such VAST, VAST, VAST numbers, Hispanics will have the “honorary minority status” & the “preferential minority status” with the U.S. federal, state & local gov’ts. Subsequently, Hispanics will be the ones getting the aid, the jobs (Especially the jobs), the housing, the health care & the education.
John —- Please just look at what is happening out in California / Southwest. And this is what I’m referring to. — Hispanics have their OWN agenda. And African Americans are being “thrown under the bus” in southern California. And this is why. —- Because Hispanics (Primarily Mexicans) don’t “need” African Americans politically in California anymore. And Hispanics don’t need African Americans in California anymore is because Hispanics have reached the CRITICAL MASS numbers (Legal Hispanics as well as illegal Hispanics)
out in California. Hispanics have VAST numbers out in California. Legal Hispanics as well as illegal Hispanics.
For decades, African Americans & Hispanics have worked together at all levels, from politics to street organizations. For instance —- Nortenos are “mixed” & the Latin Kings are mixed. In addition, the Surenos were mixed BEFORE the flood of MASS numbers of illegals into southern California.
This is what happened. —- Once the Hispanics took over politically in southern California, the illegals brought more employment pressure AS WELL AS Latin American racism into African American areas.
And immigrants DON’T have a shared history of “civil rights struggle” with African Americans. And Hispanic immigrants from Mexico, from Central America (From El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras & Guatemala) & from South America (From Colombia, Ecuador & Peru) bring a ton of racist attitudes from their native countries.
And Hispanics have their OWN culture as well as “interests” which is THEIR #1 priority. And part of that culture includes a racial pecking order which sees “blacks” at the BOTTOM. And in California / Southwest, Hispanics DON’T “need” African Americans politically anymore. So, African Americans will be marginalized as well as exploited. And WAY more so in years to come due to Americas VASTLY growing Hispanic population.
John —- In regards to the Spanish speaking nations. —- And I’m mentioning this because of Americas VASTLY growing Hispanic population. —- Now, many / most Americans like to think that “Latin” means something different. But, all it is, is another European culture which has imposed itself on blacks & indigenous peoples with many of the same prejudices. But, these prejudices are institutionalized in a slightly different way.
Here are some examples. —– Now, in Latin nations there was no institutionalized segregation. But, there was a defacto segregation. And the blacks ended up in the slums. And these slums were (And they STILL are) VERY terrible slums at this. And these slums are LOADED with (And they still are) a lot of poverty, crime, drugs (And a lot of many, different & VERY high potent drugs) as well as diseases (And a lot of many, different deadly diseases).
And do you think that this is just a “coincidence”?
And do you think that this is just a coincidence that blacks in Spanish speaking nations are at the LOWEST tier of society?
ALL of the wealth & power in Spanish speaking nations has been held (And has ALWAYS been held) & is currently held by Whites.
And just take a glance at Latin American television shows. Just look at the people who are portrayed in Univision, in Telenovelas, Diario, etc.. It is always showing the Whites. And the White elite/elites at this.
And this is NOT a coincidence at all.
John —- Your points here. —– You said “We need to look at programs and organizations of the past, both governmental and non-governmental, and examine the positive and negative characteristics they had on the betterment of African American livelihood”. —- Okay, mind if I ask, which programs as well as which organizations? Could you please expound & elaborate about this.
You said “But in the end it is EVERYONE’S duty to make it so”. —- Well, what about African Americans finally “stepping up to the plate”? What about African Americans taking care of & supporting & backing each / one another up?
And what about the African American upper class & African American middle class finally helping out the African American underclass?
You said “also, not all African Americans do not, as you seem to suggest, not value these very same things”. —- You are absolutely correct. And in my previous post I didn’t mean “all”. Maybe I should have worded my previous post a bit differently. But, I didn’t mean “all”.
And I have A LOT of RESPECT for African American Conservatives. —- Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, Roy & Niger Innis, Star Parker, Amy Holmes, Tara Wall, Tara Setmayer, Angela McGlowan, Michelle Bernard, LaShawn Barber, Sonja Schmidt, Sheryl Underwood, Deborah Honeycutt, Jennifer Carroll, Day Gardner, Kimberly Cash Tate, Lisa Fritsch, Deneen Borelli, Robin Martin, Angel Robinson, Barbara Summers, David Clarke, Thomas Sowell, Shelby Steele, Armstrong Williams, Walter Williams, Mychal Massie, Ward Connerly, Clarence Thomas, Michael Steele, Lynn Swann & John McWhorter.
Why do you hold African American conservatives in such high esteem?
Cindy. —- You asked —- “Why do you hold African American conservatives in such high esteem?”. —- It is because of what they stand for. Their principles. And their tenets are in total unison with the core values & principles of the Republican Party.
Now, before I touch base on the principles & values of African American Conservatives & the Republican Party, one must look at Americas history of politics. And one must look at what Americas 2 main political party’s have been about in the past as well as in the current / present time.
From the 1960s till now, there have been VERY fundamental & VERY substantial differences between the democratic party & the Republican Party.
For instance. —- From 1933 till the 1960s, the democratic party was the best political party in America. From 1933 till the 1960s, the democratic party TRULY “spoke for” & “represented” pretty much everyone / all sectors in America. —- The working class / lower middle class, the working poor, the very poor as well as even the upper class, upper middle class & the mid middle class.
But, in the 1960s, the democratic party went far leftwing. From the 1960s till now, the democratic party has been the political party of all of the unproductive human garbage of American society. — Leftists, the deadbeats, the incompetents, the irresponsible people, the welfare mothers who abuse the welfare & entitlement society, leftwing union “leaders”, radical leftwing feminists & radical leftwing abortionists, etc.. And the democratic party has been the political party of HIGH taxes, waste / “pork spending”, weak defense & weak foreign policy. In addition, from the 1960s till now, the policies of the democratic party “ignited” & made this stuff SKYROCKET. — Crime, illegitimate birth rates, girls from ages 12-17 having kids, kids dropping out of high school, welfare & entitlement dependency, frivolous lawsuits, laziness, insubordination, deadbeat fathers, households headed by single, unwed mothers & mothers who neglect their kids.
Furthermore, from the 1960s till now, the policies of the democrats have ignited & made this stuff skyrocket. —- Urban rot & decay, decline of public education (Especially in urban / “ghetto” communities) & American jobs going overseas.
Now, African American Conservatives & other Republicans follow & adhere to these values & tenets. The values & tenets of the Republican Party. —-
From the 1960s till now, the Republican Party has represented these values. —- Low taxes, discipline, time limits on welfare recipients, letting the economy dictate wages, creating legislation that is pro-business (And this is ultimately pro-working class), less regulations on businesses, capitalism/laissez faire/free market, privatization of social security, school choice, very tough “law & order” policy in regards to dealing with criminals, very aggressive policy in regards to dealing with our enemies throughout the world (Primarily Islamic fundamentalists & leftists) & supporting our VERY loyal allies throughout the world. —- Primarily Israel, Great Britain & the VERY GREAT Caribbean & Latin American Rightwing Paramilitary organizations.
One last point —– African American Conservatives Star Parker, John McWhorter, Shelby Steele, Thomas Sowell & Walter Williams (Walter is an Economist) have written a plethora of books which deal with as well as point out Conservative values & norms.
Why you can not stay on topic is beyond me. I think it has to do with the fact that you are over the top narrow minded, a Republican parrot. Not all of what you say is wrong, but this pattern of yours to boil everything down to the left, the democratic party, liberals, its really just a morsel of why things are.
Do not be offended and think that I believe you are an idiot, I do not. You seem like a smart guy, but I do believe you need to take a more neutral stance by pulling yourself away from getting your information from what is obviously just right wing sources.
How can you be so narrow minded as to believe that the ultimate factor in the break down of the African community is just the Democratic party? Really? Institutional racism and prejudice supersedes party lines my friend, both are just as responsible.
“EVERY racial & EVERY ethnic group in America has experienced hardships, etc.. Yet, African Americans are the one & only group in America which uses the past as a crutch & as an excuse & to play the martyr — victim.”—Okay, yes many racial groups have experienced hardships, but are they black? No. Why did Polish, Ukrainians, Germans, French, Russians and all others melt into society after 2-3 generations? Because they are not black Johnny.
I dare you to do a study of your own on African American history Johnny, and NOT just based on this or that party. Study racism first. Start from the time when Europeans first brought enslaved Africans to the Americas. Your judgment is substantially clouded by politics. LOOK AT THE REAL HISTORY JOHNNY!
In truth the Democrat Party is the responsible party who should be paying reparations…
They were the ones who have made a point of subjugating the African American population for from the time the party was formed in 1801
until the signing of the civil rights in 1964
They supported slavery.
They created jim crow laws
They used the KKK to do voter intimidation
They opposed the Civil Rights act of 1964..it was the Republicans who ran it through
They use minorities today to push their causes.
They have the longest history record of human rights abuses of any political party world wide. 160+ years, and yet they have never been taken to task for it.
Johnny says:
April 24, 2010 at 5:36 AM (Reply)
Derrick —- With all due respect, the White-American “masses” as well as the U.S. federal, state & local gov’ts have MORE than done their fair share to help & empower african Americans.
For instance —- It has primarily been the tax money from primarily White-Americans which has gone towards african Americans welfare & other entitlements.
And among the White “groups”, Jewish-Americans have ESPECIALLY done a lot to help & empower african Americans. Jewish-Americans played a VERY critical / pivotal part in the formation of the NAACP organization way back. And Jewish-Americans played a very critical / pivotal part in the “sustaining” of the NAACP as well as many other african American “civil / legal rights” organizations. Furthermore, Jewish-Americans gave a lot of aid/assistance to the african American “civil rights movement” back in the 1960s. And this aid primarily consisted of monetary donations & legal aid/advice.
And from the 1960s till now, african Americans have been given preferential treatment in the areas of aid/assistance, college — university admissions, job hiring & set asides.
In addition, from the 1960s till now, african Americans have been given trillions & trillions of dollars in aid in the form of welfare, housing aid, rent assistance, heat assistance, health care aid, educational aid, free school lunches, food stamps, TANF, Section 8, AFDC, WIC, legal aid, transportation aid, phone bill aid, child care/day care, foster care, affirmative action/quotas, set asides & federal jobs.
So, White-Americans have MORE than done their fair share to help & empower african Americans.
I am a little late to this party, however after reading this particular comment, I just felt the need to speak out. I wonder why people always assume that the majority of people receiving welfare benefits are Black people. We are the second largest minority in this country. Which means there is a majority. I’m sorry but every White person in this country is not working, taking care of their children, or paying taxes. There are more white Americans on welfare than Blacks, also more Hispanics. The New Deal was created because the government couldn’t stand watching their “good white brethen” sleep in tent cities. We are still discriminated against in 2010. Affirmative Action only means they must hire at least one person of color. You have several college educated African Americans working jobs that are not related to their degree or fields of study. People seem to believe that we have so many opportunities afforded to us. This is not the case. We struggle and live in an uphill battle every day. I do not get any special privileges just because I’m Black. If anything, I have to prove myself time and time again, because I’m Black. I have to live above and beyond the stereotypes that are set forth by Conservative Americans. There is not one Black person in this country that has had the luxury of not experiencing racism. That is something you can’t fathom or understand.